Call Of Duty Xtreme : Archived News : Comments(30) : Nerfed Bunny Hopping

by A-C, Sunday, January 25, 2004 Comments(31)

We have interviewed Tony Ray, Punkbuster developer, about the anti-cheat software that will be integrated in Call of Duty, as announced two days ago. We talk about Infinity Ward, PunkBuster, its integration with Call Of Duty and more.

Read the PunkBuster interview.

#1 by kicker(66.92.X.X), 1/26/2004 12:14 AM

good interview. sounds as though they are close to release, but i dont know, just random guessing, im betting a month + .

#2 by ET69(68.173.X.X), 1/26/2004 2:01 AM

Excellent Interview :)

#3 by Nicky(66.74.X.X), 1/26/2004 6:38 PM

Very cool

#4 by PharLap(80.145.X.X), 1/27/2004 4:27 PM

Tony wrote:
> Well PunkBuster for Counter-Strike was
> never bypassed until after we stopped
> supporting the game.

Unfortunately, Tony forgot that anyone could bypass PB's cheat detection by simply renaming pb.exe to hl.exe ... this info was available and now guess why we didn't need any big PB hax ò.Ó

> The people who say otherwise simply
> don't know what they are talking about

Go, Tony, go!! :D

- Phar Lap of OGC -

#5 by ET69(68.173.X.X), 1/27/2004 11:45 PM

Whats wrong with people like you Di*k AKA "Phar Lap of OGC"... Why must you cheat at games online... are you that damn lame? They require very little skill to begin with... you point at someone and press a single button... too damn hard for you? I mean it's not really hard to play these games... you must really suck to have to resort to cheating at something that requires no more then the movemnt of your hand. Go back to your little sad life with your cheaters website. It's people like you that kill these games and the fun in playing them. Moron!!!

#6 by PharLap(80.145.X.X), 1/28/2004 1:25 AM

@ET69:
You're getting off-topic, dude. This thread is about Tony Ray, not about me.

By the way:
Where did I state that I cheat? Does that have any relevance? Ain't there 1 or 2 (or thousands!!) other people who apparently like to cheat for whatever reason?
And if you reduce those 'reasons' to things like 'no skill' then you're making it too easy for yourself.
See, I personally don't like aimbots, because you really don't have to do anything for yourself. But it's still everyone's very own choice if he wants to use it or not.
If you don't like a game, why not switch to a different server? If you continue playing with a cheater then it's your choice and - sorry to make you angry - your fault as well!

After all, we don't force anyone to download anything from our site. How come we have 603'048 downloads after 14 months?

Last but not least, you should not take an online game for so serious like it was your whole life... or why else would you need insults in this discussion? Just take it easy and learn that this is the way people are like. Yes indeed, people do things you don't like.

Why not join the fight against the dying of the forests? There are many other problems out there ... yes, outside of your computer! If cheating at online games is our sole problem, then we can really be happy, can't we? :)

kthx, now let's get back on topic.

- Phar Lap -

#7 by ET69(68.173.X.X), 1/28/2004 4:31 AM

So let me see if I can get this straight...

You run a website based on cheating but you don't cheat??? That makes a load of sense... Doesn't it? It's called BS!

You believe all the cheaters stick to one server? If you believe this yourself then you have a major problem upstairs.

You spend your life on the topic of trying to cheat and you say that other people take the game way to seriously and its there whole life? Yet, you spend your whole life on the topic of trying to cheat.

It's even more sad that you have that many people that actually downloaded those cheats. I would have no problem with you people cheating if you really staid in one place and cheated amongst yourselves but you know as well as I do, that is just not true. I've been on many servers where one guy is obviously ligning people up from behind a wall of shooting people through bushes when they are not even visible and these are servers where they broadcast server messages against cheating.

I hope you realize you only make yourself look even more foolish when you try to defend the very Idea of cheating against other people online. And remember, you spend your entire life doing this while I spend a mear 1 or 2 hours a day max and maybe 4 hours a week playing any given game.

As for the topic... A person such as yourself should have no rights to direct any topic as you don't give the people that are fighting against your cheats online the same courtesy... Give them a fighting chance and make sure they know that who are using your cheats and where they are and then you deserve a fair on topic argument. Until then you don't have my respect and I'm sure you don't have the respect of others who play fair.

#8 by PharLap(80.145.X.X), 1/28/2004 5:25 AM

ET69 wrote:
> You run a website based on cheating but you don't cheat???
I didn't write that.I just asked you a few questions you should think about and see that cheating as a whole doesn't depend on me,but people in general.

> You believe all the cheaters stick to one server?
I didn't write that either.I wrote that if you feel annoyed by cheaters on a server,why not switch to a diff server instead of wasting time by getting mad?

> You spend your life on the topic of trying to cheat
Again an understatement!First of all, I spend much of my life with programming,because I do it for a living!Secondly,I like to research the internals of various programs,which also includes HL.Of course,I also put the results of this research into programs (like all programmers do) and tweak it until it works.Of course I'm not selfish so I don't keep it all to myself: I release it ... for free and sometimes with the sourcecode included.That's the way it goes.

> I hope you realize you only make yourself look even more foolish when you try to defend the very Idea of cheating
I don't have to defend that.I just tried to make you realize your intolerance.

> A person such as yourself should have no rights to direct any topic
I didn't direct any topic!A-C did it by setting up this thread about the interview with Tony Ray. It's that easy.

> you don't give the people that are fighting against your cheats online the same courtesy... Give them a fighting chance
The cheats can be downloaded by anyone so if you wanna have a fair fighting chance against a cheater,then use a cheat!If you don't like cheating,leave the server!That's how it works.If you start complaining and arguing with the cheater,you're wasting your time.

You won't get it,will you?

- Phar Lap -

#9 by ET69(68.173.X.X), 1/28/2004 6:09 AM

Actually you won't get it... You hand people the cheats and then try to wash yourself clean of it... That is even worse then the people who cheat. Just because someone can code a cheat doesn't mean they should be the cause of it. So am I angry? not really... I only tend to get angry when I see a number of people doing it and others that are playing honestly have no idea they are being raped by cheaters.

True you are not the only one making these cheats but you are contributing to the very hand of the cheaters that kill it for others... And generally I do switch servers when I see a cheater but there are so many of them that a person will have to switch servers constantly to avoid them.

I generally Don't get angry while playing in any online game unless I see the person that is cheating start to bitch which they do quite freequently when there cheats still do not match up to the better players out there. Hell, I get my rear handed to me alot in the game and it doesn't bother me because i come right back and pound on the person even harder. But I would rather be shot down by someone that used actual player skill then someone that had to resort to cheating.

but, To say something as ignornat as

"
The cheats can be downloaded by anyone so if you wanna have a fair fighting chance against a cheater,then use a cheat!If you don't like cheating,leave the server!That's how it works.
"

that’s really poor... I have no need to cheat and never will. I can somewhat understand someone cheating in a single player game that they can't seem to beat but I will never tolerate people who cheat or for that matter the ones who create them as those people are even worse because they are creating the very thing that most of these people would not have to begin with. Not to mention that these people invade servers that I and a few others actually pay for using yours and other cheats. So in other words you and all the other cheats make up the rules of online play for others that have no say in it?

I coded at one time as well (went as far as c++ and to assembler) but just because I can doesn’t mean I should.

however I agree on only 1 point

"
If you start complaining and arguing with the cheater,you're wasting your time
"

As provin in this very thread...

You make the cheats and claim you have no need to use them... Ok that’s fine and possible but I don't buy that... not for a second.

you make these cheats and hand them out to people and are the very cause of people not wanting to play these games because of people cheating. So in other words... you give something out that destroys another persons gaming experience and wash your hands of it because your not the one using it directly. Don't give someone bullets when you know there intentions and pretend you had no idea or you were not the cause in effect.

You blatantly made sure that people notice your website and in your first post... you also try to make that guy from even balance look like a fool. Thats not trying to direct a topic and be insulting at the same time?

Go, Phar Lap, go!! :D

BTW; It’s not any individuals choice to cheat as they are not cheating alone, they are cheating against other live people on the other side that want to play fair. And of course you will most likely think "they can cheat too if they don't like it"... well these people don't want to, in effect this is destroying there gaming experience and time.

#10 by - Ow(i)nage -(80.137.X.X), 1/28/2004 2:37 PM

Im absolutly agree with ET69 !

The prob is you can download cheats everywhere , most PC magazines have cheat tips and tricks ... we all get bombed with this fuckin cheats ...cheats everywhere aaaaaaaaahhh !! STOP IT !! ! Noobs can download them , kiddy`s they dont know that it is wrong to cheat can download them !
Some peoples not realy Know that they using a cheat why ? cheats everywhere !! STOP IT !!

Player they using cheats are fuckin lame bitches and they broke the RULE of PLAYING a GAME !!! HEADSHOTS for all of them !!!

Sorry for this words , but thats what cheaters get ! Die in fuckin hell !!!!

Peace Owi !! ( cheatfree over 15 years )

#11 by Chronic(68.85.X.X), 1/28/2004 6:50 PM

I once atleast repsected the ones who could create a cheat. Takes some knowledge, takes some time, and there arent that many people who can, or who would....so atleast the cheater had to EARN the cheat by knowing how, and spending the time to do it.
but no....now every little guy who's mommy didnt love him enough can go dload a cheat and feel good about something for a little while. Ill defend the argument that cheats are made by the progammers as a challenge, and a bit of "haha, beat activision etc", but to just give it out to anyone is no diferent than the little fags who write viruses...harming other people for the sake of there own self-worth.I guess we all gotta make a place in the world where we can.

#12 by - Ow(i)nage -(80.137.X.X), 1/28/2004 7:35 PM

yaa and "some" people makes the wrong place :P

#13 by IndexF(68.83.X.X), 1/28/2004 8:22 PM

Hmm, Phar lap chimes in with some not so valid info! Anyone who know the history of PB and HL knows that OGC for HL was just getting started when PB STOPPED supporting HL, now its not that they (PB) were scared of the OGC groups big skills, no, they bailed on Valve for other reasons. Phar Lap, why not just admit that its real easy to hack an anticheat that IS NO LONGER SUPPORTED. You guys are a laugh, you never did anything because you never had to go up against PB. Thats the truth, who cares if you own HL now, maybe Valve made the should have hired PB, then you would probably be a whole lot less cocky now. So go back and preach to your groupies about how lame PB is and how easy it is to hack, maybe if you say it enough times it will somehow become true.
OH BTW- Hows noskill? He seems to have disappeared from the Q3 OGC community- could it be that PB has bested him?
(for those who do not know noskill created and OGC bot for Q3, and and after a short battle was tumped by Punkbuster and is now nowhere to be found)
GO OCG GO!

#14 by IndexF(68.83.X.X), 1/28/2004 8:31 PM

#15 by BlackRider(24.207.X.X), 1/28/2004 9:26 PM

Yeah, noskill got owned once pb came in. Sure he got around it a couple times, but in the end he gave up. Sure it's easy creating hacks for a game without an anti-cheat, but just wait until PB comes.. I have a feeling you'll be sharing a seat with noskill.

GG.

#16 by PharLap(80.145.X.X), 1/29/2004 1:53 AM

ET69 wrote:
> You hand people the cheats and then try to wash yourself clean of it...
Okay so if this is the problem,then imagine if there were no cheat sites with
public hacks.Of course, there would be fewer cheaters,but those who still get
cheats or make their own hacks would actually be accepted as 'skilled' because
the people out there would not know what's possible and who is cheating.By
making cheats public,we force game developers to care for their games and not
just release them to make a quick buck,but to really support it!Remember what
Tony Ray wrote in the interview:
He downloads cheats from all the public sites and analyses their method of
hacking/hooking and he creates a detection for it.Now if there were no hacks in
the first place,what would anticheat-developers do?!

Maybe now you understand my sentence above: "Our cheats can be downloaded by
anyone."

> others that are playing honestly have no idea they are being raped by
> cheaters.
If they have no idea then it doesn't matter to those people. It's no difference for
them if they're being 'raped' by someone with skill or someone who uses a cheat.
It's always a good training to play against a cheater.

> Not to mention that these people invade servers that I and a few others actu-
> ally pay for using yours and other cheats.
Why would you invest in a server where you have no admin powers or when there are
no admins on it?

> you and all the other cheats make up the rules of online play for others that
> have no say in it?
If you wanna put it that way, then you're correct and it has always been like that.
If someone keeps on spamming and you don't like it, you gotta leave! If someone keeps
on camping and you don't like it, you gotta leave. If someone is cheating and you
don't like it, you gotta leave!

> you also try to make that guy from even balance look like a fool.
Good point!I just stated a fact,which implies that he's kind of a fool.I don't
see any problem with that, if the fact is correct.And it is correct.

Chronic wrote:
> to just give it [cheats] out to anyone is no diferent than the little fags who
> write viruses...
People don't want viruses but people want cheats. No difference? òÓ

IndexF wrote:
> Phar lap chimes in with some not so valid info! Anyone who know the history of PB
> and HL knows that OGC for HL was just getting started when PB STOPPED supporting HL
I don't speak about OGC Hook, but about my very own PunkBuster Hack series which has the
following three features:
1.) Disables cheat detection completely
2.) Bypasses CVar checking by always forwarding valid values for the requested CVars to PB
3.) Unique Screenshot-warning system which notifies any cheat about a screenshot being taken.

Ok now how did I manage to do 1.) ? I renamed pb.exe to hl.exe before starting it, because
as I wrote in my first post, PB's cheat detection can be bypassed with this. My PB Hack came
out after PB stopped support for HL,so this flaw was always there!
Therefore, my info is valid!

> its not that they (PB) were scared of the OGC groups big skills, no, they bailed
> on Valve for other reasons.
Other reasons? Let me name it:VALVe refused to let PB be part of HL and Tony Ray said that
it's not possible to detect some cheats without being inside the HL process. Now if Mr. Ray
was a decent programmer,he knew that you canand even enter a process easily.How do
cheats do it?How does Cheating-Death do it? Maybe Tony Ray actually feared OGC and needed
VALVe's help?
BTW:If you only believe what people tell to the public,then I feel sorry for you...I really do!

> Phar Lap,why not just admit that its real easy to hack an anticheat that IS NO LONGER
> SUPPORTED.
Yes it is. So? ò.Ó
With my first post here,I gave you a slight clue how easy it was to bypass PB and
the other two features of my hack were also very easy things to do and everyone with only a
brain would understand it. I just wondered if Tony Ray ever thought about people want to
hack the PB client? Obviously not... he wouldn't have used conventional and straight pro-
gramming with no security checks if he did think about that.And from what I've heard from
'evilbert' who created a PB-proof D3D wrapper called 'evilhack', PB is still piece of cake
to hack.

> maybe Valve should have hired PB, then you would probably be a whole lot less cocky now
Maybe I would .... or maybe not ... who knows? =/

> go back and preach to your groupies about how lame PB is and how easy it is to hack
I'll say it when it's appropriate and Tony Ray gave a good reason for it in the interview.

> maybe if you say it enough times it will somehow become true.
Did you ever reverse PB? Did you ever create a PB hack yourself? Do you know how you could
write a program like my PB Hack with the features I wrote above? If not, why speak about
things you don't have the slightest clue about?
If you wanna know it then look at the sourcecode.It's available on OGC site, I commented it
very well so maybe you actually understand it ... O.o

> Hows noskill? He seems to have disappeared from the Q3 OGC community- could it be that
> PB has beated him?
Maybe he doesn't have a motivation to update q3ogc, maybe he stopped playing Q3 ... he complete-
ly disappeared so maybe he has stuff to do in his real-life.It was definitely not hard for PB
to stop q3ogc because the sourcecode was always available! He could have as well done it
without releasing the source.PB's developers learned a lot about cheats by looking at q3ogc
source.
May I mention that my (notsource) OGCL Hack v2.7 is undetected by VAC for
18 months, whereas other cheats get detected within a week or two by VAC?

> GO OCG GO!
Yeah go OCG go! :)

- Phar Lap -

#17 by ET69(68.173.X.X), 1/29/2004 3:12 AM

Once again you make no sense in your statements... Because someone doesn’t know they are being cheated against then everything is ok... So, if someone were to kick you in the back of the head, knocking you unconscious and you never seen it happen its ok because you didn't realize or even seen what had happened.

If there weren’t any people cheating we wouldn’t need PB to begin with. Granted that it is not entirely your fault but you are defiantly not clean of this and are a major cause of this.

You really can't be as bright as you think you are which is the sad part. If you were such a damn good coder that you think you are you would be making anti cheat software rather then a lame excuse to an app called a cheat. I mean, you claim you make game developers to care for there development of such products. Now if you are so skilled at coding like you claim to be... Why are you on the easy side of the road? Obviously your not as skilled as you think you are and you defiantly are not trying to help anything otherwise you would be assisting them with info rather then trying to bypass it. They do accept info on cheats and anything about it...

And I do have admin rights, I just don't feel that I should have to police it constantly simple because some fool decides to make these things and give them to others.

Why do you keep trying to make excuses that say nothing more then to try and justify ignorance and wash your hands of something you contribute to?

Now a few real questions for you...

Do you have anyone in your life that cares for you? I can't believe you have anyone in this world as a person with such outlooks in life couldn't possibly gain affection (true affection). Do you have anything in life that made a positive impact on anything other then destruction of something? You look at cheating as though its something to be held so high... there is no pride for anyone that has to cheat... The very code you create makes you a cheater at the very thing you claim to be so good at... Why do all this? I don't buy the story of helping game developers because there are far more effective ways to go about doing that and making $ in the process. They are all more then willing to fix problems like this so why not simply contact them and try to help and make some cash as well? Is it too hard to code something a little more solid and fight what you claim to know so well? I mean, if you know it so well you should be great at fighting it and could make a living off of this rather then creating an endless cycle of destructive behaviour...

I still believe that you really need help… Anyone who can see reason in destructive behavior and play it as they are doing something great… well there are/were many people like that in this world and it always ends up with the same end (and I am not talking about tyrants but every day people). You can say what you want here on this thread but the fact remains in the end. There is more to life then trying to cheat your way through everything with destructive behavior and make hollow excuses/reasons.

#18 by IndexF(151.198.X.X), 1/29/2004 9:05 AM

Phar Lap:
!, If you admit you did your hack AFTER PB stopped supporting HL then you know that renaming the PB.exe to HL.exe to take advantage of this flaw would have led to the fixing of this flaw by PB. But, that never happened because they stopped the support of HL so its really not such a big deal or huge victory for you. As you have agreed, its easy to hack and AC that is not supported, that never will update again. Its trivial, and it proves nothing, PB was designed to continue to update to be effective, if its not updating, its not effective, simple.
The Valve situation: Maybe Valve didnt want to PAY, maybe they thought they could handle it (ie;VAC) You know how well VAC works dont you? If you think PB was afraid that OGC would expose them as a fraud then your fooling yourself.

You must not be aware of the current state of PB and are basing your statements on your experience with a very old and outdated PB for HL. You should not use Evilbert to make a point, his hack site is gone, he is done, PB detected everything he put out, even modified non public versions of the hack. Users of his hack even got PB global bans. He was essentially owned, bad example for you to use. It shows me your unaware of PB outside of HL though.

Your source for the PB hack is for the old PB sint it? Its useless for what out now. (also there is no pb.exe now so that method wont work)
PB also does not need a cheat source code, they detect many closed source cheats.

Frankly I dont care about your hack evading VAC for 18 months, the subject here is Tony Ray and PB.

Go OGC Go or something.

#19 by VladTsepeshD(68.192.X.X), 1/29/2004 10:38 AM

holy shit stop posting, PB lags your computer, nothing more nothing less, it does not prevent EVERYONE from hacking, but it keeps enough order to deter as many ppl as possible, end of story. besides, hackers are never as good as true skill, ask all the panzy little ogc whores i made my bitch in urban terror. unf unf daddyo.

#20 by PharLap(80.145.X.X), 1/29/2004 4:13 PM

ET69 wrote:
> Once again you make no sense in your statements...
Now if I told you 2+2=4 and explain in detail why this is true and you still can't understand it, doesn't mean it's my fault. Maybe you don't want to understand? ;)

> if someone were to kick you in the back of the head, knocking you
> unconscious and you never seen it happen its ok because you didn't
> realize or even seen what had happened.
Should this be an attempt to make a comparison? LOL!! (sorry, couldn't resist)

> If there weren’t any people cheating we wouldn’t need PB to begin with.
You always would need an AntiCheat. The problem is that - without public cheats - the people wouldn't realize that they're in need of an AC, because there would still be hacks and those who know how to hack and how to code make their hacks and spread it privately. Now people who use it would beat other people who don't cheat and those people would think that they were killed by skill.
Maybe you now understood why it would be much harder for AC-developers to figure out which cheats are available and what they do, if no cheat ever went public...

> you are defiantly not clean of this and are a major cause of this.
I'm not more of a cause than anyone else. One the one hand, if I went on a server and cheated, I would be one person who's cheating. So? It's the masses who make it a problem for you, don't you understand? On the other hand, I am releasing my hacks, but it's still the choice of the people if they want to use it or not. Apparently, many people want to cheat, so obviously this is the way people are like. Eat it or complain until the end of your days...

> You really can't be as bright as you think you are
I didn't say anywhere how smart I think I was. Anyways,I feel honoured by your judgement that I seem to be bright ... thx :)

> If you were such a damn good coder you would be making anti cheat software
I think of it as: I would rather make gaming a much more interesting experience by coding an enhancement (aka cheat) rather than making an Anti-Cheat which I had to support all the time and which won't give me anything useful than a waste of time and many many users who start bitching because they don't like it. The problem is that people are FORCED to use an Anti-Cheat if they wanna play on a certain server so if they can't get the AC running, they complain to the developer, since they can't join that server without having the AC running.
Now if I create cheats, I don't need to support it always and the people who don't wanna use it, won't use it ... and they're not forced to use it. So I'll just stick to the second thing and invest the most part of my time in developing programs which will earn me some real big cash.

> a lame excuse to an app called a cheat.
What app exactly? MyL Hack is quite successful. It has an easy but rich GUI with straight-forward handling, needs no installation, a very good ReadMe and is not overloaded with features and gimmicks you'll never need.

> you claim you make game developers to care for there development of
> such products.
I don't "claim" it ... it just has this effect. And you would also know that this it true, if you had half a brain.

> Why are you on the easy side of the road?
Already explained this one above. Why choosing the hard side when you don't have to? It's just a game ;) ... I do stick on the hard side when it comes to the apps I am developing for companies which give me $$$ for it. That's what I do for a living and that's the only important thing.

> you would be assisting them with info rather then trying to bypass it. They do accept info on cheats
> and anything about it...
Negative. Those companies don't care about it until there's a public cheat which uses that method to hack into the game. DOn't believe it? Now why do we need public bug archives like BugTraq? Many bug finders say that they have notified company of the flaw in their app but they didn't fix it for 3 or more months so now they go public with the info.

> I do have admin rights, I just don't feel that I should have to police it constantly
Ever heard about modules that broadcast the game into a given IRC channel? You can parse this perfectly and even admin the server via IRC. Or why not tell the users to change their name to "admin needed" when there's a problem? This is how it's done for a long time.

> Do you have anyone in your life that cares for you?
Uuuh, now the legacy real-life questions. Yes i have a GF, yes I do have a real-life, yes I do have an intact social life, etc etc ...... now see why I always tell you that you take the game for too serious. You only know this part of me and think this is my whole life just because gaming is your whole life (?). Funny thing :D

> You look at cheating as though its something to be held so high
Actually no, but people like you just won't understand it that's why I have to go into such detail about it. Cheating is something you have to be able to deal with. And this is not done by flaming, insulting, going mad or endless discussions about the same things on and on... I only write it once. If you don't get it: bad luck!

> I still believe that you really need help
Why? Because I don't share your opinion? Try to tolerate different opinions ... that's what I already told you before. I do accept them and I would never call you a loser just because you don't understand what I tried to explain to you above. You'll just go on with discussing, maybe flaming and wonder what the hell is wrong with people... so be it :\

> You can say what you want here on this thread but the fact remains in the end.
Cool phrase ... really! :D Hey, I'll put this after every point I make maybe the people believe me then... *lol*

IndexF wrote:
> to take advantage of this flaw would have led to the fixing of this flaw by PB.
I told you it was available in many forums, including OGC forums. Why make a program for this task? *ROFLMAGOBLAO*! Not my fault that Tony didn't realize it.

> PB was designed to continue to update to be effective, if its not updating, its not effective
Oh it was very effective even when it was discontinued since it detected many cheats which was only one part of it.The most important part was the ability to take screenshots periodically or whenever the admin wants it. Another thing was checking the CVars to be within a valid range. All of these features still worked (only the cheat detections were not updated anymore). So I think it was quite effective, especiall with the screenshot feature being able to detect any new cheat that has some visual effects.

> If you think PB was afraid that OGC would expose them as a fraud then your fooling yourself.
Ok and if you write that PB was not scared by OGC but stopped for other reasons then you're not fooling yourself? Fine ó.Ò

> You [...] are basing your statements on your experience with a very old and outdated PB for HL.
Yes of course, I never said something else. Not my fault that they gave up ;D
That's why I wrote some more updated info right from evilbert, see below...

> You should not use Evilbert to make a point, his hack site is gone, PB detected everything
> he put out
Why not use evilbert as source? After all, he was digging into current versions of PB and therefore he can tell how PB is like, nowadays. First you complain about I was refering to an old version, then you complain about info from someone who looked inside current versions... wow!

His hack has been hosted by sourceforge but they refused to host it any longer for reasons which you can probably understand, eh? Furthermore, evilhack wassource too, so you should rather be thankful that he taught PB a lesson. It was his very own choice to make itsource. Oh and now he doesn't update... so? You know he has a real-life, a real-life job (hardware/driver developer) and that he prefers to put his time into this stuff instead of coding a hack?
Again: First you complain about cheaters/cheat-developers having no lifes and when they don't support their cheat for some time then you say they've been beaten/owned? ... wow ... again!

> It shows me your unaware of PB outside of HL though.
Man you're really a fumbduck ... it was Tony Ray who started talking about the old versions (Quote :"PunkBuster for Counter-Strike was never bypassed"). You complained that I gave "not so valid" info and I showed you that it was valid. Now you go on and say it's outdated. So?

> Frankly I dont care about your hack evading VAC for 18 months, the subject here is Tony Ray and PB.
I'll better not tell you what I don't care about ;)
However, the most interesting thing about the fact above is that I didn't bring out any new version for 15 months and it's still not detected.

- PharLap -

#21 by ET69(68.173.X.X), 1/29/2004 4:51 PM

Phar Lap, once again you make yourself look follish...

A person does not have to share another’s opinion to know the person is a fool of which you are. And I highly doubt you have a GF or any social life as you have way to much time on your hands to do so which is how people come to destructive behavior. If you had real life responsibilities you wouldn't be involved in such nonsense. The very reason I ask this question is to try and understand why someone would bother wasting there time with such things.

"
now see why I always tell you that you take the game for too serious. You only know this part of me and think this is my whole life just because gaming is your whole life (?). Funny thing :D
"
If anyone here has made gaming there life it would have to be you as you have a website and waist time in your life on making nonsense like this. If you think your fooling anyone with such a statement its only yourself… Look at the updates you make to your website, the updates you make to you ogl hacks, etc… the time this takes? I know it takes more then a few minutes as every programmer has experimented with hacking and reverse engineering Apps, Games, API’s etc… You take a situation that you yourself are in, you know you have nothing better to do with your time and then do not like it so you try to turn this inside out and project it onto others… hence the very reason you need help.

You keep twisting your responses and making yourself look foolish. Its obvious by your responses that you don't believe what your saying yourself and are just making up excuses for yourself... At this point you proven mine and everyone elses points in there responces here. You never answer anything direct and then come up with nonsense to explain your actions and others. The very statement:

"
Now if I told you 2+2=4 and explain in detail why this is true and you still can't understand it, doesn't mean it's my fault. Maybe you don't want to understand? ;)
"

can go both ways... But your responces are trying to justify Destructive behavior.

"
Why? Because I don't share your opinion? Try to tolerate different opinions ...
"

There are many opinions I tolerate... I tolerate religious ones, scientific ones, etc... even when I don't agree with them... however I will never tolerate ones from an egotistical, snide punk who has to cheat his way through life and does nothing but cause destructive behavior. See, I would have no problems with it if you had kept it to yourself, but the very actions you take are destructive and are not being used against others that share your opinion.. they are being used against people who do not and that in itself contradicts your statements where you try to wash yourself clean of every action you take.

#22 by Anonymous(68.83.X.X), 1/29/2004 6:27 PM

"
I told you it was available in many forums, including OGC forums. Why make a program for this task? *ROFLMAGOBLAO*! Not my fault that Tony didn't realize it."
Yuor not making any sense. Where did you mention that this was available in many forums? You implied that you discovered the renaming flaw and built it into your hack now you say the flaw was widely known?
"Oh it was very effective even when it was discontinued since it detected many cheats which was only one part of it.The most important part was the ability to take screenshots periodically or whenever the admin wants it. Another thing was checking the CVars to be within a valid range. All of these features still worked (only the cheat detections were not updated anymore). So I think it was quite effective, especiall with the screenshot feature being able to detect any new cheat that has some visual effects.
"
So now your waying that PB was effective? I thought your only point here was to say that Mr Ray is a fool, there PB was created by a fool and is not a very good Anticheat. Now the fools anticheat was effective long after it was designed to be effective? Is that what you are telling us?
"Ok and if you write that PB was not scared by OGC but stopped for other reasons then you're not fooling yourself? Fine ó.Ò"
So what is it, are you the only group that has put PB on the run? The mighty OGC group? How is that you have the formula that no other cheat writers possess? It seems that its much much more likely that the demise of PB for HL had NOTHING to do with you on any other cheat author.
"
Why not use evilbert as source? After all, he was digging into current versions of PB and therefore he can tell how PB is like, nowadays. First you complain about I was refering to an old version, then you complain about info from someone who looked inside current versions... wow!
"
You really missed the point on Evilbert Phar Lap. Must I spell it out for you? Ok I will- Evilbert is a bad source of for you to use in the debate as his hacks are DETECTED! He only makes a point for the AC side, that yet another cheater could not defeat PB. You referred to Evilbert and evilhack as a way to show that the current PB is easy to hack. Your information is flawed and outdated. It is also wrong, Evilbert NEVER made a PB hack, he made a cheat that tried to hide and it was and is ineffective. One more thing, are you reading phantom text? I never complained about using Evilbert as a source, I just said it was a bad one for you to use, kinda makes you look like you dont know what your talking about.
Sourceforge didnt remove the Evilhack site, Evilbert took down the project for his own reasons. I tend the think PB had something to do with it, maybe since he has a real life as you say he no longer wished to invest the time required to keep his hack undetected. If it werent for PB, I bet he would still be offering his hack as it would require much less work on his part.
"Again: First you complain about cheaters/cheat-developers having no lifes and when they don't support their cheat for some time then you say they've been beaten/owned? ... wow ... again!"

Are you reading the same text as everyone else or has more phantom test inserted itself? I never made a mention of anyone having no life, dont use the standard arguements with me, read what I say otherwise you just look silly. And for all intents and purposes, Evilhack has been owned. Wow yourself (Hint- READ, then post rebuttal, but please READ first for your sake)
"Man you're really a fumbduck ... it was Tony Ray who started talking about the old versions (Quote :"PunkBuster for Counter-Strike was never bypassed"). You complained that I gave "not so valid" info and I showed you that it was valid. Now you go on and say it's outdated. So?"

No need to call you names, anyone here that can read can see I dont need that form of assistance unlike yourself.
Tony Ray was asked a direct question about the old version and answered it. So what? You just decided to tell us all how you easily hacked a version of PB which was (once again) NO LONGER SUPPORTED I stand by my statement that your info is not so valid (overstated to say the least) Every single hack that came out after PB stopped HL support would have worked, not just yours, who cares? Dont pretend that you are the great savior of CS cheaters. Too bad you never got your chance to go up against PB, too bad for us. I get the feeling you suddenly would have a "real life" that would preclude you from updating your hacks just like many of your brethren. It means NOTHING
"I'll better not tell you what I don't care about ;)
However, the most interesting thing about the fact above is that I didn't bring out any new version for 15 months and it's still not detected."
Your opinion means nothing to me.
The real story here, and it always seems to go the same way with guyslike you, is that you get to cheer for yourself about how your hack is still VAC proof. Talk about bringing up soemthing totally off subject, but whatever, go pat yourself on the back or something. Then come back to the topic, which is PB, not VAC.

Go OGC Go yay! I got mail! yayyyy!

#23 by IndexF(68.83.X.X), 1/29/2004 6:27 PM

BTW Phar Lap, thats me above

#24 by IndexF(68.83.X.X), 1/29/2004 6:37 PM

Also, point of clarification. Just because a hack is closed source does not mean it cannot be detected by PB.

#25 by =HC=HighSea(142.161.X.X), 1/29/2004 10:19 PM

Goodbye online circus twirling a la bullshit - hello Airsoft.

#26 by R0n1n(63.137.X.X), 1/30/2004 4:59 AM

fk me - that's too much crap to read :D

#27 by Geekman(217.210.X.X), 1/30/2004 3:31 PM

Nice litle chat you have guys.

If you look at it from a coding side of this, then I understand PharLap. It's easy to try on stuff you have installed in your computer and it's a nice challange.

If I look at it from a player view, it's horrible. I'll never know if there are cheaters among those who are playing. If someone is a good player he could be misstaken for a cheater. I have been kicked from server because I killed to many to fast. They thought that I was cheating.

If you look at it from the company side, who provides the games, it's horrible. They need to spend more $$ on developing AC's. But this is the good part for players, who will get a better game as time passes by.

It doesn't matter how you put it. It's allways the same. Cheats are here and people finds a challenge in making them.

#28 by taurine(200.83.X.X), 1/30/2004 5:51 PM

I'm a bit surprised no one has said anything about how immensely retarded Tony's first GUID system for the (new) RTCW/QUAKE3/SOF2 punkbuster was. The GUID was basically stored in a god damn cvar and all you had to do to spoof someone elses guid was to change a small value in memory!! By the way, Tony would never have bothered fixing it, had noskill not included a GUID changer in his Q3OGC.

To be fair, I do think Tony and his gang are good at one thing: marketing themselves. I believe that a reasonably skilled software engineer could implement every single feature included in PunkBuster in a matter of days, but regardless of that, Tony's cronies have been able to sell their pattern scanning crapware to a whole host of companies, and at the end of the day that's what brings money into their pockets. Can't really blame them for being greedy...

#29 by IndexF(68.83.X.X), 1/30/2004 6:51 PM

Taurine is right that cheat writers like noskill may find some flaw in PB, which is then closed. Its how things work, cheat comes out- cheat detected, news cheat comes out, new cheat detected. I think if your the taurine I think your are then you know that very well. I know you have had several updates of your cheat as new releases of your bot get detected all of the time.

#30 by malcolmx(62.134.X.X), 1/31/2004 5:32 AM

funny thread

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